Comments on Flutzing Around: A Figure Skating Blog by Tony Wheeler: Amodio Used Vocal Music Intentionally

"I have to say that I hate Florent's atti...

2011-05-01T10:39:07.954-04:00

"I have to say that I hate Florent's attitude right from the beginning. I cannot believe he is actually from Brazil where people have such a postive attitude."

He has been adopted by a French family when he was 1 month old!!!!!

"This is typical French skating attitude" What a cliché...

That is so racist and useless...

I like blog posts more than twitter - more thought...

2011-04-30T16:01:54.918-04:00

I like blog posts more than twitter - more thoughtful and in depth. I thin kthe two platforms complement each other nicely.

French media is reporting that P/B will move to Detroit to train. Have you heard anything about that?

I was live posting on Twitter throughout the ladie...

2011-04-30T15:37:54.683-04:00

I was live posting on Twitter throughout the ladies and some of the ice dance today. I'll eventually get some summaries up, but I feel like that stuff is already old news a few minutes after the competition is over ;-)

Well said Anon 4.48! I was going to say something ...

2011-04-30T05:45:17.643-04:00

Well said Anon 4.48! I was going to say something about Joubert, but will refrain, being the biassed Joubert supporter that I am.:) I will remark however, that had Amodio been deducted one point, the placements would not have changed. And if they had, all that would have happened is that Joubert would have ended up 7th and Amodio 8th, instead of how it is now.

This is NOT to say that I in any way support Amodio's decision. Nor do I see a lot of "Amodio is awesome! The rules suck!"-comments here, Anon 12.32 - do you? " I presume you also go elsewhere and have seen people claiming that Amodio did something ground-breaking by using vocals" - then I suggest you go there and refute their arguments, rather than, quite possibly preaching to the choir - and actually doing your best to insult said choir at the same time.

And Tony, I echo Anon 4.48's questions? Will you?

LRK

Interesting that you think the Shibs (whom I adore...

2011-04-30T04:48:29.583-04:00

Interesting that you think the Shibs (whom I adore, BTW) were undermarked compared to P/B - I assure you I read other figure skating stuff too, and most people feel that Maia and Alex were overmarked compared to B/S and W/P, while P/B should be closer to or even ahead of D/W. I have also seen very little support for Amodio's decision to use music with lyrics. Just because Florent himself thinks he did something amazing doesn't make it so. Now, I'm fairly sure that the only skater in recent years to get a deduction for using lyrics was French - and if there were lyrics, they were hard to discern.

Look, if you believe that the FFSG is super-powerful, nobody and no evidence will convince you otherwise (look up "confirmation bias" online - don't worry, we're all guilty of it at times). Of course it's more powerful than, say, the Spanish Fed (Javi wuzrobbed) or the IISF, but compared to other big federations? No, I think not. Using Joubert as proof won't work, either - he's not the most IJS-friendly skater, but he's done quite a lot to adjust to it, and when he's off the judges don't give him the benefit of the doubt as they do to some skaters whom I shall not name.

If anything, I'd argue that at times the FFSG has even been a hindrance to its skaters - messing with people's coaching situations, criticizing their own skaters openly and refusing to give them assignments. I know that the NA media likes to paint Didier Gailhaguet as very influential, but truly the results speak for themselves, and they show that his power is considerably more limited than you seem to think. Amodio skated well this season, and his PCS have begun to reflect that, but this is a process we've seen time and again with skaters from all countries.

Tony, where are the other summaries? Will you be scoring the performances, too?

I mean, fine, it's not an actual fact in the s...

2011-04-30T00:32:47.344-04:00

I mean, fine, it's not an actual fact in the sense that there isn't, like, statistical support for it -- you can argue semantics if that's easier. France has a ton of power; Didier is probably going to be the next president of the ISU. If you can't see the pull they have in the sport, I'm not going to try to convince you. For recent evidence? Brian Joubert's dominance in the sport despite the fact that he is not an IJS skater at all. If he competed for Israel or South Africa or some other random country without a powerful fed, he would never have been on a Worlds podium.

I also think you undercut your own argument when you bring up the short dance results from today. Shibutanis performed better than P/B, but it's been pre-determined they will win this bronze. This is in part due to the power of the French Fed.

I was not on the panel, nicely spotted. However, Amodio's PCS were about the same as they always are. So, based on trends, no, his PCS do not appear to have taken a hit. In fact, they were a couple of points higher than at Europeans, where he skated a much more inspired performance. So. There's that.

This isn't even the major part of my argument. I can't believe this is what I'm defending. If it's not because of the power of the French Fed, why else didn't he get deducted? Prove me wrong if it's so obvious I'm reaching.

Finally: I'm also not only referring to what I see in this particular comment thread. This isn't the only figure skating blog or forum I visit. I presume you also go elsewhere and have seen people claiming that Amodio did something ground-breaking by using vocals -- in fact, he himself pretty much suggests the same thing. So, no, it isn't pointless to bring it up. He wouldn't have done this in the first place if he didn't enjoy some degree of support from his fed and favor among the judges.

Anon 3:02 - "The fact remains, if Amodio didn...

2011-04-29T16:18:56.706-04:00

Anon 3:02 - "The fact remains, if Amodio didn't represent France, he probably would have been dinged... and taken a hit in PCS. "

I think you need to look over the definition of "fact". This is not a fact - it is your opinion; one, if I may add, for which you can't offer any concrete support. How do you know that the judges did not dock Amodio's PCS? Were you on the panel?

For all that people like to attribute much power to the FFSG, results have proven time and again that it is considerably less effective when it come to politikking than several of the other federations - think of Delobel and Schoenfelder's endless fourth place finishes, or today's short dance results, for a more recent example.

I haven't seen anyone in this comment thread who argued that using music with lyrics was a good idea, so the suggestion that people are more forgiving of Florent's choice than they would have been of someone else seems rather pointless.

@6:15AM -- It's not really an issue of who'...

2011-04-29T15:02:32.494-04:00

@6:15AM -- It's not really an issue of who's doing more politicking. The fact remains, if Amodio didn't represent France, he probably would have been dinged... and taken a hit in PCS. I hope he's punished in some way by the French Fed... that kind of stunt is not appropriate of the European Champion at the World Championships. He's not a child and if he can't take the event seriously, I don't think he should be allowed to compete.

Has Amodio ever expressed a problem with this particular rule? Do we have any reason to believe he truly did this to protest it? He's had the program all season -- if he really wanted to make a statement, why didn't he use the vocals along the way? Or at other competitions where he had no shot at the podium, like GPF? I honestly don't think this has anything to do with the rule. Amodio wanted to make the story all about him. It is arrogant and obnoxious and it makes me not want to cheer for him anymore.

I'm surprised so many people are willing for forgive him for this. I feel like if perhaps another skater had done this - for example, someone less popular like Evan Lysacek - the reception would be much different.

I honestly don't know what to think about this...

2011-04-29T09:59:55.986-04:00

I honestly don't know what to think about this - but please, it's scarcely a question of new, cool songs OR Carmen, is it? Who's stopping the skaters from using newer music, really? Film-music is used, but it tends to be the same pieces - somebody could try, say, Bourne, or something. Why don't they?

Personally I don't know where I stand on the issue of songs/no songs, but there are pieces where I find it far more... endurable to hear the music only, rather than having the song inflicted on me as well. (I have some particular songs in mind - but, really, taste is an individual thing, and I don't want to make nasty remarks about things that others may like. Especially if it serves no point whatever.)

LRK

LOL the commenters here are being a bit harsh, no?...

2011-04-29T06:17:50.253-04:00

LOL the commenters here are being a bit harsh, no?
Speaking about his accent, really? It's not like he is going to speak perfect English!
I've met Flo several times at competitions and he's been really polite and super fun/nice so idk why people think he has a bad attitude.

I think it was good for them to use vocals, for me it added to the program. His team made the choice to use it and risk being deducted a point, so why are people so bothered?

It's up to the judges to vote on whether they should deduct a point, and in this case they didn't.

I'd like to see vocals used more in singles. I don't know if the readers here know much about the history of skating but it wasn't THAT long ago that vocals weren't allowed in ice dance. I'd hardly say that having vocals has made ice dance less enjoyable, it just gives the skaters more options when choosing music.

Honestly, I'd far rather have someone use vocals than hear another rendition of carmen!

But yes, I hope Florent ups the technical content of his programs next season. Morozov has said that his aim was to get him skating consistently this season, so they didn't push it too much.

I've been to TEB too, Stefan, and I don't ...

2011-04-29T06:16:48.117-04:00

I've been to TEB too, Stefan, and I don't think all French skaters have a bad attitude. That's a generalization and a ridiculous one at that.

I have no idea what Florent thought he was doing. Surya could afford to piss off judges at that stage in her career; Florent can't. And really, much as I dislike muzzak, the Black-Eyed Peas are not something I want to hear in a competitive program.

Anon 5:39, considering some of the results yesterday, I'd say that at least two federations did much more politikking than the FFSG.

Some people elsewhere think this is a huge, innova...

2011-04-29T05:39:52.418-04:00

Some people elsewhere think this is a huge, innovative step that will ~change figure-skating~ but I am more inclined to believe this was a pointless ploy for attention. It aggravates me he wasn't penalized for it. Didier strikes again!

Why was there no deduction for the music violation...

2011-04-29T05:04:21.503-04:00

Why was there no deduction for the music violation?

OMG, he speaks English as if it was French, terrib...

2011-04-29T04:33:22.833-04:00

OMG, he speaks English as if it was French, terrible accent... and all those "pfff" like "I'm too above everyone else for you to understand", this is so Parisian!!!

And also, I find his skating so overrated, two 3A ...

2011-04-29T04:27:48.432-04:00

And also, I find his skating so overrated, two 3A in a row as if he was under training conditions (= much easier), NO transitions, arm and butt fluffing but zero real choreography (steps etc.). I cannot understand the PCS he got this season...

This is typical French skating attitude, I dont kn...

2011-04-29T04:25:42.964-04:00

This is typical French skating attitude, I dont know why all French skaters have this bad attitude (so does the public that is the less knowledgeable ever, and I know what I'm talking about after 11 Lalique/TEB and 2000 worlds and 97 Europeans).
I have to say that I hate Florent's attitude right from the beginning. I cannot believe he is actually from Brazil where people have such a postive attitude.
Now, why did he not get deducted, please???

I think Florent's cockiness has absolutely be...

2011-04-28T16:10:49.009-04:00

I think Florent's cockiness has absolutely been spurred on by Morosov. He sat behind me at Trophee Eric Bompard 2008 (when he was a relative nobody) and was SO rude as a skating observer (talking all through performances, not clapping, even kicking my chair at times) so this behaviour does not surprise me at all! Having said that, he's still a great skater IMHO.